tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post5459600363839704870..comments2024-01-26T13:08:26.506-08:00Comments on Cybermetrics: Why Isn't Steve Garvey In The Hall Of Fame?Cyril Moronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-89489930985943340762014-07-31T05:08:15.394-07:002014-07-31T05:08:15.394-07:00If I do the top 50 from 1967-81, the years Perez q...If I do the top 50 from 1967-81, the years Perez qualified, he has two of the top 37<br /><br />OWP YEAR OWP <br />1 Willie McCovey 1969 .847 Giants<br />2 Dick Allen 1972 .817 White Sox<br />3 Rod Carew 1977 .813 Twins<br />4 Hank Aaron 1971 .804 Braves<br />5 Willie McCovey 1970 .798 Giants<br />6 Willie McCovey 1968 .792 Giants<br />7 Carl Yastrzemski 1970 .784 Red Sox<br />8 John Mayberry 1975 .782 Royals<br />9 Harmon Killebrew 1967 .777 Twins<br />10 Boog Powell 1970 .770 Orioles<br />11 John Mayberry 1972 .760 Royals<br />12 Tony Perez 1973 .758 Reds<br />13 Orlando Cepeda 1967 .757 Cardinals<br />14 Mike Epstein 1972 .756 A's<br />15 Norm Cash 1971 .748 Tigers<br />16 Cecil Cooper 1980 .745 Brewers<br />17 Willie Stargell 1972 .740 Pirates<br />18 Dick Allen 1974 .734 White Sox<br />19 Willie McCovey 1967 .733 Giants<br />20 Boog Powell 1975 .731 Indians<br />21 Keith Hernandez 1979 .729 Cardinals<br />22 Bob Watson 1976 .729 Astros<br />23 Dick Allen 1969 .728 Phillies<br />24 Rod Carew 1978 .724 Twins<br />25 Rod Carew 1976 .723 Twins<br />26 Don Mincher 1967 .719 Angels<br />27 Mickey Mantle 1967 .719 Yankees<br />28 John Mayberry 1973 .715 Royals<br />29 Boog Powell 1969 .715 Orioles<br />30 Gene Tenace 1973 .714 A's<br />31 Eddie Murray 1981 .710 Orioles<br />32 Keith Hernandez 1980 .707 Cardinals<br />33 Andre Thornton 1978 .700 Indians<br />34 Willie Stargell 1975 .700 Pirates<br />35 Keith Hernandez 1981 .699 Cardinals<br />36 Carl Yastrzemski 1974 .698 Red Sox<br />37 Tony Perez 1972 .694 Reds<br />Cyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-71075724810719568442014-07-31T05:06:18.133-07:002014-07-31T05:06:18.133-07:00Yes, Perez is in the Hall. But his 4 best seasons ...Yes, Perez is in the Hall. But his 4 best seasons were before 1974. Here is the top 32 from 1961-73. Perez makes it twice<br /><br />OWP YEAR OWP <br />1 Norm Cash 1961 .864 Tigers<br />2 Willie McCovey 1969 .847 Giants<br />3 Dick Allen 1972 .817 White Sox<br />4 Jim Gentile 1961 .804 Orioles<br />5 Hank Aaron 1971 .804 Braves<br />6 Willie McCovey 1970 .798 Giants<br />7 Willie McCovey 1968 .792 Giants<br />8 Carl Yastrzemski 1970 .784 Red Sox<br />9 Willie McCovey 1966 .781 Giants<br />10 Harmon Killebrew 1967 .777 Twins<br />11 Boog Powell 1970 .770 Orioles<br />12 Bob Allison 1964 .764 Twins<br />13 John Mayberry 1972 .760 Royals<br />14 Tony Perez 1973 .758 Reds<br />15 Orlando Cepeda 1967 .757 Cardinals<br />16 Mike Epstein 1972 .756 A's<br />17 Orlando Cepeda 1963 .752 Giants<br />18 Norm Cash 1971 .748 Tigers<br />19 Willie Stargell 1972 .740 Pirates<br />20 Willie McCovey 1967 .733 Giants<br />21 Dick Allen 1969 .728 Phillies<br />22 Boog Powell 1966 .726 Orioles<br />23 Harmon Killebrew 1961 .720 Twins<br />24 Don Mincher 1967 .719 Angels<br />25 Mickey Mantle 1967 .719 Yankees<br />26 John Mayberry 1973 .715 Royals<br />27 Boog Powell 1969 .715 Orioles<br />28 Gene Tenace 1973 .714 A's<br />29 Orlando Cepeda 1964 .703 Giants<br />30 Norm Siebern 1962 .697 A's<br />31 Felipe Alou 1966 .697 Braves<br />32 Tony Perez 1972 .694 Reds<br />Cyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-47218649936420465622014-07-30T19:52:48.442-07:002014-07-30T19:52:48.442-07:00Thanks for pulling that data Cy. Shocking not to s...Thanks for pulling that data Cy. Shocking not to see Tony Perez on that list. Isn't Perez in the HOF?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-10507302884261585692014-07-30T19:38:05.537-07:002014-07-30T19:38:05.537-07:00Here are the top 50 among qualifiers from 1974-86....Here are the top 50 among qualifiers from 1974-86. Garvey has a 45th and that is it. Other guys appear multiple times<br /><br />1 Rod Carew 1977 .813 Twins<br />2 John Mayberry 1975 .782 Royals<br />3 Eddie Murray 1984 .770 Orioles<br />4 Cecil Cooper 1980 .745 Brewers<br />5 Don Mattingly 1984 .744 Yankees<br />6 Don Mattingly 1986 .742 Yankees<br />7 Don Mattingly 1985 .739 Yankees<br />8 Eddie Murray 1983 .735 Orioles<br />9 Dick Allen 1974 .734 White Sox<br />10 Boog Powell 1975 .731 Indians<br />11 Keith Hernandez 1979 .729 Cardinals<br />12 Bob Watson 1976 .729 Astros<br />13 Rod Carew 1978 .724 Twins<br />14 Eddie Murray 1982 .724 Orioles<br />15 Jack Clark 1985 .723 Cardinals<br />16 Rod Carew 1976 .723 Twins<br />17 Eddie Murray 1985 .719 Orioles<br />18 Al Oliver 1982 .715 Expos<br />19 Keith Hernandez 1986 .715 Mets<br />20 Eddie Murray 1981 .710 Orioles<br />21 Keith Hernandez 1980 .707 Cardinals<br />22 Keith Hernandez 1984 .705 Mets<br />23 Cecil Cooper 1982 .704 Brewers<br />24 Andre Thornton 1978 .700 Indians<br />25 Willie Stargell 1975 .700 Pirates<br />26 Keith Hernandez 1981 .699 Cardinals<br />27 Carl Yastrzemski 1974 .698 Red Sox<br />28 Mike Schmidt 1985 .695 Phillies<br />29 Alvin Davis 1984 .693 Mariners<br />30 Gene Tenace 1976 .693 A's<br />31 Bob Watson 1975 .691 Astros<br />32 Jason Thompson 1980 .689 Tigers/Angels<br />33 Mike Hargrove 1977 .688 Rangers<br />34 Cecil Cooper 1981 .688 Brewers<br />35 Andre Thornton 1977 .688 Indians<br />36 Darrell Evans 1983 .686 Giants<br />37 Eddie Murray 1978 .683 Orioles<br />38 Pete Rose 1979 .679 Phillies<br />39 Bob Watson 1977 .678 Astros<br />40 Kent Hrbek 1984 .678 Twins<br />41 Willie Aikens 1981 .677 Royals<br />42 Jason Thompson 1982 .677 Pirates<br />43 George Hendrick 1983 .672 Cardinals<br />44 Keith Hernandez 1983 .672 Cardinals/Mets<br />45 Steve Garvey 1974 .670 Dodgers<br />46 Joe Rudi 1975 .666 A's<br />47 Gene Tenace 1978 .665 Padres<br />48 Mike Hargrove 1976 .665 Rangers<br />49 Cecil Cooper 1983 .665 Brewers<br />50 Eddie Murray 1986 .663 OriolesCyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-76563665703314931152014-07-30T19:30:53.357-07:002014-07-30T19:30:53.357-07:00Cy, you've noted that Garvey doesn't have...Cy, you've noted that Garvey doesn't have one of the top 50 seasons among 1B men in Offensive Winning Percentage from 1969-1987. But what does the data tell us if you run 1B Offenisve Winning Percentage from 1974-1986? Garvey was marginalized by the Dodgers until '74. Heck, he was so off the radar, the fans literally wrote him into the all star game. I think he had a career ending injury well before the all star break in 1987, so best to throw that out too. Also, who among those on the '69-'87 top 50 seasons lists repeats? I'd imagine Eddie Murray and Keith Hernandez appear more than once. Maybe Tony Perez? Otherwise, I'd guess it is a sea of one-season wonders where Garv was always solid.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-40412034803222509262013-11-27T16:19:47.584-08:002013-11-27T16:19:47.584-08:00Thanks for dropping by and commenting.Thanks for dropping by and commenting.Cyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-57640460713981366002013-11-27T12:25:36.553-08:002013-11-27T12:25:36.553-08:00Interesting comments on Garvey. Although this post...Interesting comments on Garvey. Although this post was from a few years back, I'm still scratching my head to why he's not being voted in to the HOF. He was as a reliable player as Ripken, day in and day out. Maybe he slept with some of the writers' wives...just brainstorming. =)LastnameKimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02166790976278749188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-61557362428241768802012-12-08T07:46:32.377-08:002012-12-08T07:46:32.377-08:00I saw him on TV alot in the 70s and 80s. The write...I saw him on TV alot in the 70s and 80s. The writers, who saw him alot, too, must have liked him then since he got 2.46 MVP shares, which ranks 59th all-time. But then the writers did not vote hime in (although it is not exactly the same set of writers).Cyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-28824238171705148762012-12-07T20:56:43.565-08:002012-12-07T20:56:43.565-08:00Did you happen to see him play? I'm now 40 so ...Did you happen to see him play? I'm now 40 so I don't have recognition of watching him much as a kid. But I do agree in the eyeball test -- what did those who saw him play have to say? A good friend and fellow baseball junkie, who also was a Strat-O-Matic addict, said Garvey, and Don Sutton, belong in the hall of good. I grew up on baseball cards and baseball encyclopedia and couldn't wrap my head around Garvey not being in the hall of fame. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13043685567306436993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-73659435989930987662012-02-08T06:46:28.413-08:002012-02-08T06:46:28.413-08:00Bob
Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I am n...Bob<br /><br />Thanks for dropping by and commenting. I am not sure I agree that he was the dominant 1B man in his era. He does not have even one of the top 50 seasons among 1B men in Offenisve Winning Percentage from 1969-1987, the years he played. He had only one top 10 in OWP, a 9th in 1974. His clutch stats were good, but not great. See<br /><br />http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/G/Jgarvs0010.htm<br /><br />CyCyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-37969293276812969182012-02-08T06:13:01.096-08:002012-02-08T06:13:01.096-08:00It is beyond my reasoning why writers, most of who...It is beyond my reasoning why writers, most of whom have never picked up a bat in their life, have the ability to keep a man such as Garvey out of the HOF. I don't need to get into his stats, as you have already documented them, but Garvey was also the most dominant first baseman of his era. Sure, Keith Hernandez came along but that is just one man. Garvey played in four World Series with the Dodgers and helped the hapless San Diego Padres to the N.L. pennant in 1984. His home run in game four of the NLCS was epic. Garvey was clutch in every way. His off-the-field issues should never have entered into the writers minds.Bob Roehttp://leaguelineup.com/ranchocordovadodgersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-20107712128842449092011-11-10T10:05:31.370-08:002011-11-10T10:05:31.370-08:00You make some good points. Maybe the writers don&#...You make some good points. Maybe the writers don't look at ethics as much when you achieve a mile stone like 300 wins or 500 HRs. Although steroids seem to be keeping McGwire and Palmeiro out so far. I peronally am not saying Garvey was especially less ethical than anyone else. It is just a guess as to what the voters were thinking. And if they did take ethics into account, why in Garvey's case and not in other cases? I don't knowCyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-7439218421030787662011-11-10T08:49:19.008-08:002011-11-10T08:49:19.008-08:00Ok, this is a long comment, on an old post, so I a...Ok, this is a long comment, on an old post, so I apologize, but that first 'Anonymous' comment doesn't sit well with me.<br />Even if ethics are a factor, I don't think they should be a particularly deciding factor, especially if the allegedly 'questionable' ethics were in regards to something other than Baseball itself, and certainly when the majority of these incidents occurred after the completion of his playing career. The fact that Garvey's dirty laundry happened to receive particular public airing doesn't discount his big league career and the accomplishments therein, which should be the larger criteria used to decide whether or not he's inducted. Like you said before, how would we apply these same 'ethical standards' to other folk already in the hall who have had less than stellar personal conduct, and Gaylord Perry particularly, who's misconduct and cheating took place on the field, during play, actually effected the outcome of games, and over-inflated his stats.<br />If we want to get into philandering, one could write a series of encyclopedias about the number of affairs (be they 'alleged' or 'confirmed') of any number of Hall of Fame players, but even then one could boil it down to two words: Mickey Mantle, who's like, the JFK of baseball. Sure, he's got better stats than Garvey, and he's more well known/loved by the general public, but were his 'ethics' any less 'questionable' and was his whole 'squeaky clean' image any less phony?Boffo Zoohttp://bustakap.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-36346841060144117852011-04-24T09:08:40.231-07:002011-04-24T09:08:40.231-07:00Thanks for dropping by and commenting. Maybe ethic...Thanks for dropping by and commenting. Maybe ethics should be a factor. How would that apply to Ty Cobb or Gaylor Perry or Cap Anson?Cyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-6056702529948693912011-04-22T21:38:53.124-07:002011-04-22T21:38:53.124-07:00Because the hall is filled only with players of im...Because the hall is filled only with players of impeckable personal ethics. Well the next few years will surely weigh on that one....what I find stunning is that he is the only player to have more than 200 hits 5 times or more, not in the hall, that isn't banned. At least officially. Maybe he needs to build a hospital or a wing on a local university.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-74395911393514496682011-01-14T14:52:07.713-08:002011-01-14T14:52:07.713-08:00Frances
Thanks for dropping by. It could be that ...Frances<br /><br />Thanks for dropping by. It could be that his scandals are what kept him out. What are some of the worst things his ex-wife said?<br /><br />CyCyril Moronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148864847009186694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-608528753722196209.post-31109833120483727362011-01-14T14:43:18.620-08:002011-01-14T14:43:18.620-08:00Despite his success as a ballpalyer, I feel he is ...Despite his success as a ballpalyer, I feel he is being penalized for his sleazy personal ethics which are in question. He doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame; ditto Pete Rose for gambling. Garvey is such a phony. Read Cynthia Garvey's book and you'll see why. Frances Reyes<br />Los Angeles 1-14-11Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com